Curse

Cathode_Reborn · Sep 10, 2008, 09:47 PM // 21:47

Part of the fun with 7 heroes is that it'd open doors to tons of you new builds. Sure you could steamroll PvE even more if you wanted to, but I know there'd be many others trying out more "fun" but less effective builds.

Sure I could pug and beat most of PvE, but I think it'd just be funner when you're using specific team builds made from scratch.

trankle · Sep 10, 2008, 09:48 PM // 21:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

no drama problems in TAM, I have been in guild that do have drama and its always do to people not being able to get over it and taking a joke, next time get better people other than standing in LA spamming "Guild looking for members"

Maybe I'm missing something here, but isn't playing with random people what you're all about? Isn't that what defines fun, and is best for the game? Wouldn't grabbing random players from LA serve this purpose nicely?

Also, is it not true that every time you group with seven guild members, that's seven potential PUGgers you exclude?

Bryant Again · Sep 10, 2008, 11:37 PM // 23:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Oranos

Sorry, no. Stop generalizing.

I could say the exact same thing to you, ya know. Experiences are subjective.

Dark Paladin X · Sep 11, 2008, 12:06 AM // 00:06

well I could find another player and have him/her put in his/her best heroes. so having 7 heroes, yeah, a bit overpowered. But again, some of the skill bars on the henchies really suck.

Inner Salbat · Sep 11, 2008, 03:14 AM // 03:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

and this makes me wrong how?

You've been wrong this whole entire time you just absolutely dogmatically sticking to a rubber gun hoping it will shoot a bullet your sterile.

The game was designed from conception to be able to be played alone is this in anyway unclear to you?

Avarre · Sep 11, 2008, 03:31 AM // 03:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inner Salbat

The game was designed from conception to be able to be played alone is this in anyway unclear to you?

I think it's been extremely well established that 'original game design' and 'current game design' are only distantly related. The game was designed from conception to involve skill over time, and we know how that went.

DreamWind · Sep 11, 2008, 04:51 AM // 04:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inner Salbat

You've been wrong this whole entire time you just absolutely dogmatically sticking to a rubber gun hoping it will shoot a bullet your sterile.

The game was designed from conception to be able to be played alone is this in anyway unclear to you?

Yes...its extremely unclear because the box says HENCHMEN. It says nothing about heros. Not to mention the brilliant fact brought up by Avarre that original game design (as advertised on boxes) and current game design are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. asfdsafds

Inner Salbat · Sep 11, 2008, 05:08 AM // 05:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

Yes...its extremely unclear because the box says HENCHMEN. It says nothing about heros. Not to mention the brilliant fact brought up by Avarre that original game design (as advertised on boxes) and current game design are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. asfdsafds

I'd agree with that maybe I should sue them for false advertising ? - I don't think so the basic concepts are still there or henchmen would not exist today, the point is that simple concept is 35% of the reason why I brought the game, saw the game looked at the box and thought "Ahuh! so if I can't find/don't want too I can play it by myself bonus" one for the tick column.

The trouble is with the content they have henchmen are largely ineffective but only when it comes to hard mode.

Amy Awien · Sep 11, 2008, 06:26 AM // 06:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

Yes...its extremely unclear because the box says HENCHMEN. It says nothing about heros.

The Nightfall box extends it to heroes.

"Recruit a team of fearless Heroes who will fight at your side and follow orders in combat."

There's no basis for claims that the game was intended to be played with humans alone. The henchmen were in it from the start and with the heroes added later this really does not indicate to me that using H/H is in any way going against the 'design'.

JDRyder · Sep 11, 2008, 11:37 AM // 11:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inner Salbat

You've been wrong this whole entire time you just absolutely dogmatically sticking to a rubber gun hoping it will shoot a bullet your sterile.

The game was designed from conception to be able to be played alone is this in anyway unclear to you?

and this means you have to 7 heros why?

with no heros you can still solo the missions, with the way things are now you can solo the missions, Some areas were made for guilds/friend/pugs cause they didnt add henchmen to it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

The Nightfall box extends it to heroes.

"Recruit a team of fearless Heroes who will fight at your side and follow orders in combat."

There's no basis for claims that the game was intended to be played with humans alone. The henchmen were in it from the start and with the heroes added later this really does not indicate to me that using H/H is in any way going against the 'design'.

I dont see where it says "have 7heros"

Quote:

Originally Posted by trankle

Maybe I'm missing something here, but isn't playing with random people what you're all about? Isn't that what defines fun, and is best for the game?

no i play with H/H, Guild groups, friends and pugs

Quote:

Originally Posted by trankle

Wouldn't grabbing random players from LA serve this purpose nicely?

Also, is it not true that every time you group with seven guild members, that's seven potential PUGgers you exclude?

?

Shasgaliel · Sep 11, 2008, 12:07 PM // 12:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

with no heros you can still solo the missions, with the way things are now you can solo the missions, Some areas were made for guilds/friend/pugs cause they didnt add henchmen to it.

I think you will need to post this part on every next coming page of this thread even though it was posted more than 10 times already. It still seems that it is unnoticed or misunderstood by people discussing with you. The game can be done solo with henchmen and heroes and there is no need to make this soloing any easier.

The only argument so far I liked for 7 heroes was that they will allow better team build creativity and allow to enjoy the game with a set of skills fully chosen by player (3 heroes in 4 man area doesn't do the trick apparently, but 7 will do or maybe 11?). I would like to enjoy that myself as well. But it does not mean that I have to pretend to be blind regarding other aspects of the game as PUGs which will diminish as I explained already so many times before. Keeping things as they are, does not change much but implementing 7 heroes will make some people happy at the cost of others. I would like such improvement as heroes but without side effects on the team play it has. If at the other hand puging would somehow be improved by some other changes in the game then no problem. I realize that people who do not pug might not understand that, but the ones who pug do and so far Anet seems to see it this way as well.

Inner Salbat · Sep 11, 2008, 01:00 PM // 13:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

and this means you have to 7 heros why?

with no heros you can still solo the missions, with the way things are now you can solo the missions, Some areas were made for guilds/friend/pugs cause they didnt add henchmen to it.

I dont see where it says "have 7heros"

no i play with H/H, Guild groups, friends and pugs
?

It doesn't it says Heros implying more than 1 or that would be "hero", you could take implication of which that it could mean 2,3,4,5,6 or 7 additionally it leaves them open to increase or decrease the number of allowed heros without being sued for false advertising by not mandatory stating an exact number, which gives them flexibility if they need it.

You play with guilds / friend and pugs that is perfectly fine but where do you get off dictating to the rest of the community 500+ of us so far that your way is the way it should be?

Not everyone has friends they can call on, not everyone has a guild with people to do things with, that's the very reason henchmen and heros exist for but the henchmen do not match the game mechanics when it comes to hard mode, but then there is no use explaining this to you I may as well have the conversation with my wall, because it has about the same flexibility and understanding of the over all picture as you do.

Henchmen fall far far short when it comes to hard mode, I wouldn't even bother adding the extra 4 heros for normal mode, but for hard mode you bet I would add the other 4 of my heros, I've vanquished every area in the game and if it had not been for consumables and power stones it would not have been possible at all, I should not have had to resort to spending gold to complete that game goal I should have been able to construct a build to complete the goal without them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shasgaliel

I think you will need to post this part on every next coming page of this thread even though it was posted more than 10 times already. It still seems that it is unnoticed or misunderstood by people discussing with you. The game can be done solo with henchmen and heroes and there is no need to make this soloing any easier.

Any easier ? have you any idea how hard some of that stuff is with h/h I guess not maybe your another one of these lucky people with friends and a guild?

JDRyder · Sep 11, 2008, 01:25 PM // 13:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inner Salbat

It doesn't it says Heros implying more than 1 or that would be "hero", you could take implication of which that it could mean 2,3,4,5,6 or 7 additionally it leaves them open to increase or decrease the number of allowed heros without being sued for false advertising by not mandatory stating an exact number, which gives them flexibility if they need it.

it can still mean 1, as in there is more than 1 type of heros.

this this is dumb ....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inner Salbat

You play with guilds / friend and pugs that is perfectly fine but where do you get off dictating to the rest of the community 500+ of us so far that your way is the way it should be?

if 99% of Guild wars wanted a sword that killed every thing in 1 hit do you give it to them?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inner Salbat

Not everyone has friends they can call on, not everyone has a guild with people to do things with, that's the very reason henchmen and heros exist for but the henchmen do not match the game mechanics when it comes to hard mode, but then there is no use explaining this to you I may as well have the conversation with my wall, because it has about the same flexibility and understanding of the over all picture as you do.

what? every 1 can have friends/guilds, if you cant get friends online you need to stop playing anyway and go outside.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inner Salbat

Henchmen fall far far short when it comes to hard mode, I wouldn't even bother adding the extra 4 heros for normal mode, but for hard mode you bet I would add the other 4 of my heros, I've vanquished every area in the game and if it had not been for consumables and power stones it would not have been possible at all, I should not have had to resort to spending gold to complete that game goal I should have been able to construct a build to complete the goal without them.

i think thats just you. I know a few people that have done all the VQs in the game and 90% of the time just H/Hing it w/o cons etc, Ive never had to use cons for a VQ.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inner Salbat

Any easier ? have you any idea how hard some of that stuff is with h/h I guess not maybe your another one of these lucky people with friends and a guild?

out of any of the HM H/H stuff Ive done i dont think id call any of it hard, boring to the point where I've got half way and then say meh or fall a sleep but not hard.

any 1 can have friends/guilds its nothing to do with luck, its just 5-10mins in the guru guild rec threads.

Inner Salbat · Sep 11, 2008, 01:35 PM // 13:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

...

right form now on if I feel like replying to your posts I'll talk to my wall, just for further reference it's people like you that make me not want to PuG or find a guild.

sixofone · Sep 11, 2008, 01:49 PM // 13:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

this this is dumb ....

if 99% of Guild wars wanted a sword that killed every thing in 1 hit do you give it to them?

LOL -true! Your argument "is dumb..." If the thread were about a sword that killed everything in 1 hit, then chances are most of us would agree. But, since its not...

Try arguing the actual point instead of some ridiculous, exaggerated one.

eximiis · Sep 11, 2008, 02:14 PM // 14:14

Pugs are bad, they will alway be bad.

If they remove heroes, ppl will go with henchman or will go with guilds not with Pugs.

So if they add 7 heroes or remove heroes, ppl still don't go with pugs.

Why do you puggers don't want 7 heroes, what do you want ?? any things we can do for you ??? Your pugs are already bad, why don't you go find a guild and play with them while we (Hway) get 7 heroes ???

sixofone · Sep 11, 2008, 02:21 PM // 14:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by eximiis

Pugs are bad, they will alway be bad.

If they remove heroes, ppl will go with henchman or will go with guilds not with Pugs.

So if they add 7 heroes or remove heroes, ppl still don't go with pugs.

Why do you puggers don't want 7 heroes, what do you want ?? any things we can do for you ??? Your pugs are already bad, why don't you go find a guild and play with them while we (Hway) get 7 heroes ???

Not every PUG is bad. And some people prefer them. The argument has been that, as heroes were introduced, PUGging became harder to do - the pool of available people willing to PUG went down. The fear is that 7 heroes will mean the death of PUGs altogether.

Maybe they're right. And unfortunately, most of us don't care if that happens or not. I don't PUG, so I wouldn't miss it. People still PUG in PvP anyway, so why limit PvE based on a minority of players?

DreamWind · Sep 11, 2008, 02:23 PM // 14:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inner Salbat

I'd agree with that maybe I should sue them for false advertising ? - I don't think so the basic concepts are still there or henchmen would not exist today, the point is that simple concept is 35% of the reason why I brought the game, saw the game looked at the box and thought "Ahuh! so if I can't find/don't want too I can play it by myself bonus" one for the tick column.

The skill>time and competitive aspects of the game are at least 50% of the reason I bought the game. Should I sue them for false advertising on that too?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awein

The Nightfall box extends it to heroes.

"Recruit a team of fearless Heroes who will fight at your side and follow orders in combat."

There's no basis for claims that the game was intended to be played with humans alone.

Theres no basis for claims that the game was intended to be played with 7 heroes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixofone

LOL -true! Your argument "is dumb..." If the thread were about a sword that killed everything in 1 hit, then chances are most of us would agree. But, since its not...

Try arguing the actual point instead of some ridiculous, exaggerated one.

Actually I find his argument to be quite valid. Should something be put into the game because the players demand it even if it is bad for the game? Thoughts of Ursan ring in my head.

Shasgaliel · Sep 11, 2008, 02:29 PM // 14:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by eximiis

Pugs are bad, they will alway be bad.

If they remove heroes, ppl will go with henchman or will go with guilds not with Pugs.

So if they add 7 heroes or remove heroes, ppl still don't go with pugs.

Why do you puggers don't want 7 heroes, what do you want ?? any things we can do for you ??? Your pugs are already bad, why don't you go find a guild and play with them while we (Hway) get 7 heroes ???

Answers you will find in this thread. Please read the thread. My question is how many times people have to post the same arguments over and over? 7 heroes reduces the possibility of PUGs if you want detailed arguments read the thread. BTW most of the people against the heroes have guilds so I do not get your advice of finding one.

sixofone · Sep 11, 2008, 02:32 PM // 14:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

Actually I find his argument to be quite valid. Should something be put into the game because the players demand it even if it is bad for the game? Thoughts of Ursan ring in my head.

And most people here argued for nerfing Ursan, iirc. I don't, however, ever remember anyone asking that Ursan be added to the game.

Was adding heroes bad for the game? Seems a lot of people don't agree with that argument, either.

Please - no more of the "should something bad be added to the game no matter how many people want it" arguments. Obviously the answer is no. But, you make a huge leap about what is "bad for the game" when you equate 7 heroes with imba OP God-mode!

What's bad for PUGs does not = bad for the game. It's bad for PUGs in PvE, and that's it.